Thursday, 31 July 2014

A one state solution ?

Over at rationalist Judaism, Rabbi Slifkin has noted that the recent conflict in Gaza has seriously called into question (at least presumably in Israel) of the 'one state solution' ,see his article here.

I have to admit a couple of years ago, in fact until recently I harboured a belief in the 2 state solution. My opinion is gradually changing toward a one state solution in which Israel officially annexes the West Bank, Gaza and Golan as the only possible solution. My rationale for this is in part based on Rabbi Slifkin's arguments in the article, but more widely that Israel simply cannot be secure without practically controlling the borders, airspace and a military presence in any Palestine state, ergo Palestine would be nothing other than a client state of Israel at best; at worst it would be seen as an 'occupation' by another method. The idea of a one state solution does create issues in itself, as I noted in the comments, to to which I will further add on this post  and  elaborate on, after  giving the matter some further thought  : 

  • What will Israel do with the Arab population?
  • Could the WB be given some form of self rule, but with Israel in control of the security and foreign policy ? (probably wouldn't work and would be decried as a 'Bantustan').
  • Should the Arabs of the disputed territories be given, like those in 'Israel proper', full  Israeli citizenship? Logically this would make sense.
  • If they are given full citizenship where will this leave the demographics of the world's only Jewish state? OK, even if the hereditary 'refugees' are  given citizenship of the countries they currently live in and granting Israeli citizenship only applied to people living in the 'disputed territories', that would still significantly reduce the Jewish majority. However, at present there is somewhat of a baby boom going on in Israel; as Israeli women are conscripted into the army and then have children later on in life,which plays havoc with traditional demographic predictions and of course Israel could soon see the arrival of 600,000 Jews from France. So whilst demographics are an issue, I don't see them as being  a total stumbling bloc to a one state solution.
  • Would points 3 and 4  not lead to a Yugoslavia or Syrian situation, i.e. a permanent aggrieved minority, who have traditionally be taught to hate Israelis & eventually lead to the destruction of Israel being a homeland for Jews? 
  • Alternatively, could the Arab population be given compensation and money to relocate in other Arab countries (again another logical choice) in which they would feel more comfortable with? Be reminded that after the Gulf war Kuwait unilaterally expelled 400,000 Palestinians from its territory, but without compensation or help to relocate. In this idea we would be talking about voluntarily relocation with cash and support. So the idea is not as horrendous as it sounds.
  • Would this relocation work? 
  •  Who will pay for this relocation? 
  • How will Israel persuade its biggest ally, the USA, of the merits of this plan, given that the US is officially committed to the idea of a 2 state solution? 
  • How will the other Arab states be induced to accept this plan? 
  •  Am I wrong  to even consider this as a serious alternative to a 2 state solution? 


  1. Dov,

    I agree that the 2 state solution simply won't work. Interesting set of questions there, I will post answers to you later.

  2. Free Palestine31 July 2014 at 18:25

    Just because they are not physically present doesn't change the fact that Gaza remains under a brutal occupation. Israel controls the land, sea, and air borders, doesn't let people of Gaza in or out, limits the passage of food and goods to the point of keeping the economy on the brink of collapse, limits essential supplies like food, fuel, and electricity, while blocking the passage of luxury items like pasta, toys and hygiene products. Malnutrition and unemployment are at record levels and the whole region is becoming unlivable fast. It is a genocide in slow motion. From a legal perspective, several international bodies, including the UN have repeatedly reaffirmed that Israel is not fulfilling its responsibilities as the occupying power.

  3. Free Palestine31 July 2014 at 18:25

    The common line of rhetoric employed by supporters of Israel's campaign is Hamas's rocket fire on Israel. This isolates the conflict to a purely military one, completely negating the more substantial political question of Israel's illegitimate presence in Gaza and the West Bank to begin with. Hamas is simply a desperate reaction to this problem. Israel's "withdrawal" from Gaza is anything but complete, since it controls its air space and borders.

    The more this conflict continues, the more the political question will be ignored in favour of the military one. Eventually, a patchy cease fire will be negotiated, the Palestinian people will have experienced unimaginable losses with little hope of returning to the already unfortunate lives they were forced to live. And the question of talking more seriously about Palestine's right to exist as a nation will once again be foregone in face of the tirade of commendations that Israel will receive for accepting this cease fire after negotiations. It's easy to negotiate when you're in a position of power like that.

  4. Boycott American trade, impose sanctions on America and Israel. Insist on the arrest of people who give the orders to attack civilians. Don't delete comments of people who stand up for humanity.

  5. Free Palestine31 July 2014 at 18:32

    Absolutely agree. Staggering that these crimes are being committed with ZERO accountability and no repercussions. The Hague should have called for a war crimes investigation a week ago.

    If ANY other nation were doing this (with the exception of Israel's enabler, America) it would have had the most serious sanctions, boycotts, and even UN troops on the ground pronto. For once and for all we have to stop according two and only two nations carte blanche when it comes to committing war crimes.

    People are dying. Many of them children. Nearly all of them innocent civilians trapped in a ghetto designed to make them vulnerable. It's disgusting, inhuman, untenable, and criminal.

    Call Israel to account. NOW.

  6. London's Willy31 July 2014 at 18:33

    The Hague should have called for a war crimes investigation a week ago.

  7. There is a petition on to expel the Israeli Ambassador from the UK: about 5,000 have signed thus far. A long shot (as it will never happen), I grant you, but the more signatures the more pressure on the UK government to at least do something about it:

  8. Heh. That's funny. Free Palestine is calling on the ICC to do something. Why just a few threads ago he was telling us all about how Hitler tried and failed to stop the Jewish Controlled International banking cartel. Too bad Germany lost that war, huh, FP. Why, Palestine would be free otherwise. Well, as free as Germany would allow. No ICC action for them.

    Been reading Stormfront, again, haven't you?

  9. Interesting set of questions. No answers yet. I don't think the Arab population would willingly go to other countries and those other countries simply won't accept them. I know it has been banded around they could go to Jordan, but Jordan does not want to become the de facto Palestine and they already have issues with the Palestinian refugees already there. Of course it would have been mightily helpful if the Arabs had integrated the Palestinians into their own communities, rather than perpetuating their suffering by making their refugee status a hereditary item. For example we are descendants of refugees, but we are reasonably integrated into British society. That the Arabs didn't do so and use the Pals as political tools, tell you a lot.

  10. It is quite appalling the number of extremist jewish organisations currently preaching hate against Palestinians specifically and Muslims overall.

    It's a new kind of bloodlust that the Israeli populate has displayed during the current conflict. The IDF has always possessed it, but right-wing politics in Israel has contaminated moderate voices.Israel won't wear this. Israel, which, tragically, has become a racist state, wants to drive the Palestinians out altogether.Funny though, Jewish communities used to be widely accepted throughout the middle east. Oh, thats right, that was before the formation of Israel..

  11. Like I've said before - when Palestinians, die, its ALWAYS the fault of Hamas, ALWAYS. Israel is never to blame. No. Israel is dropping bombs day and night, from land, sea and air - they fall on the ground like flower petals. Yes. Its Hamas that is killing its own people. How f**king grotesque can your arguments get?! Where is your humanity?! Stop treating the rest of the world like idiots and grow some humanity!!!

  12. Hamas is making a gesture! They have absolutely nothing to loose. People who are desperate eventually do this. Slavery is no fun. Spartacus did it, The Poles and Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto did it and now the Palestinians of Gaza are doing it.It's all about the LAND and resources and a corrupt and ruinous Zionist dream to own it all and incrementally cleanse the Palestinian people from this land, even if it means a slaughter of innocents in Gaza as well as the West Bank.

  13. Atheist Shrugged1 August 2014 at 19:08

    It seems to me that Israel is a country with a racist leadership. Lets see sanctions against the government. Let us see the assets of ministers frozen in the EU ( à la Russia), a program of disinvestment and cheering to the rooftops of those who stand up against this violence (like the socialist workers party). This situation (as the UN said) is a disgrace to the world. Enough is enough.

  14. Quiet American Friend1 August 2014 at 22:31

    If you don't stand for anything, you will fall for everything. Israel is our ally in the Middle East. They are most like us as a Democratic Republic. Hamas is a rogue killer who does not care if its population dies. Israel has lost all trust with those low lifes and I hope they erase them from the earth. War will never be fair... it can only be urgent to bring security and promote continued existence

  15. FP

    What has all this to do with your recently expressed admiration of Hitler's quest to rid the world of Jewish bankers via the gas chambers at Auschwitz?



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